Comments on: Dojo Confessions (Or: How I gave up my jQuery Security Blanket and Lived to Tell the Tale) http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/ Adventures in front-end consulting Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:05:04 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Paul http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-1135 Paul Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:01:23 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-1135 Very nice article. I agree wholeheartedly; you capture the fundamental differences between jQuery and Dojo in a concise and readable manner. The code structure, dependency management system, build system, and the object "extensions" are the strong points of Dojo. It adds some fundamental object oriented constructs that are lacking in "vanilla" javascript; similar to the jump from PHP4 to PHP5. Very nice article. I agree wholeheartedly; you capture the fundamental differences between jQuery and Dojo in a concise and readable manner. The code structure, dependency management system, build system, and the object “extensions” are the strong points of Dojo. It adds some fundamental object oriented constructs that are lacking in “vanilla” javascript; similar to the jump from PHP4 to PHP5.

]]> By: matt http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-1098 matt Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:15:34 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-1098 interesting to read your experience. i've traveled the same road although i think i suffered many more bruises. the central issue between jquery and dojo is one of code structure. while dojo provides a framework for building objects, there is no reason why this can't be accomplished with vanilla js. package management is nice if you're working with massive amounts of js but most of the apps can suck down their js all at once. Book idea? Scaling jQuery interesting to read your experience. i’ve traveled the same road although i think i suffered many more bruises.

the central issue between jquery and dojo is one of code structure. while dojo provides a framework for building objects, there is no reason why this can’t be accomplished with vanilla js. package management is nice if you’re working with massive amounts of js but most of the apps can suck down their js all at once.

Book idea? Scaling jQuery

]]> By: Rebecca http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-968 Rebecca Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:59:48 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-968 @Rohn While I have a great deal of appreciation for jQuery, there are fundamental application design questions, especially related to building and dependency management, that are unquestionably better answered by other libraries -- I think even the jQuery team would admit this, and as far as I know, they're working to address it. jQuery is great for a lot of things, but this is a place where it falls short. Also: while writing jQuery plugins is a good skill for any jQuery developer to have, there's a lot more to structuring applications than writing plugins, and in fact I've seen many applications where the plugin paradigm has been misused for code organization. @Rohn While I have a great deal of appreciation for jQuery, there are fundamental application design questions, especially related to building and dependency management, that are unquestionably better answered by other libraries — I think even the jQuery team would admit this, and as far as I know, they’re working to address it. jQuery is great for a lot of things, but this is a place where it falls short.

Also: while writing jQuery plugins is a good skill for any jQuery developer to have, there’s a lot more to structuring applications than writing plugins, and in fact I’ve seen many applications where the plugin paradigm has been misused for code organization.

]]> By: Rohn Jessick http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-967 Rohn Jessick Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:32:48 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-967 > "It offers little guidance on how to structure your codebase, how to ensure that everything you need is loaded, or how to build your code into production-ready files" Well, those who learn how to, write books. Actually, the best way to learn how to structure a jQuery app is to write some jQ plugins. I've written 3 so far and I'm getting a good idea of how a jQuery app should be structured. >@Andrew jQuery is as “industrial strength” as it gets :) > “It offers little guidance on how to structure your codebase, how to ensure that everything you need is loaded, or how to build your code into production-ready files”

Well, those who learn how to, write books.
Actually, the best way to learn how to structure a jQuery app is to write some jQ plugins. I’ve written 3 so far and I’m getting a good idea of how a jQuery app should be structured.

>@Andrew
jQuery is as “industrial strength” as it gets :)

]]> By: Andrew Hedges http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-945 Andrew Hedges Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:56:51 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-945 Great article, Rebecca! In my work, I've used first Prototype and lately jQuery. I've long meant to dive into Dojo as I have the impression it's more "industrial strength" (a conception validated by this post), but have so far opted to get things done rather than climb another learning curve. This gives me inspiration to try again to work it into a project. Great article, Rebecca! In my work, I’ve used first Prototype and lately jQuery. I’ve long meant to dive into Dojo as I have the impression it’s more “industrial strength” (a conception validated by this post), but have so far opted to get things done rather than climb another learning curve. This gives me inspiration to try again to work it into a project.

]]> By: Tom Mahieu http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-943 Tom Mahieu Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:02:18 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-943 Interesting (and very long read :)). I myself have been using mainly dojo, so I'm not sure how jQuery tackles this: Concerning code maintainability. I found the Dojo Objective Harness very interesting with respect to maintainability. Writing Unit tests for my dojo "classes' has saved me a lot of time, especially in the case of regression. A built-in Unit test framework is something I use as an argument a lot in discussions about software maintenance in JavaScript code. Concerning creating custom builds, I totally agree about its complexity. We develop Java web applications most of the time, and have captured the dojo build process in a maven build. In case you're interested, I've written something about that here: http://www.mahieu.org/?p=3. The only problem that remains (for us) is creating the file with the layer definitions... Interesting (and very long read :) ). I myself have been using mainly dojo, so I’m not sure how jQuery tackles this: Concerning code maintainability. I found the Dojo Objective Harness very interesting with respect to maintainability. Writing Unit tests for my dojo “classes’ has saved me a lot of time, especially in the case of regression. A built-in Unit test framework is something I use as an argument a lot in discussions about software maintenance in JavaScript code.

Concerning creating custom builds, I totally agree about its complexity. We develop Java web applications most of the time, and have captured the dojo build process in a maven build. In case you’re interested, I’ve written something about that here: http://www.mahieu.org/?p=3. The only problem that remains (for us) is creating the file with the layer definitions…

]]> By: Rey Bango http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-940 Rey Bango Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:04:29 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-940 hehe. Not to worry. I think as talented as you are, it makes sense to explore other libs so you can tailor your solutions appropriately. Dojo is a great lib itself with lots of amazing capabilities and a great choice for specific use cases. :) hehe. Not to worry. I think as talented as you are, it makes sense to explore other libs so you can tailor your solutions appropriately. Dojo is a great lib itself with lots of amazing capabilities and a great choice for specific use cases. :)

]]> By: Osman http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/2009/11/12/dojo-confessions-or-how-i-gave-up-my-jquery-security-blanket-and-lived-to-tell-the-tale/comment-page-1/#comment-939 Osman Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:34:16 +0000 http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/?p=235#comment-939 Wow. After all these years I'm still amazed at how well you write, particularly on technical subjects like coding. Even non-coders like me can follow the gist of your article. Nicely done. Wow. After all these years I’m still amazed at how well you write, particularly on technical subjects like coding. Even non-coders like me can follow the gist of your article. Nicely done.

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